Sold Guns at Gun Shows Without a License – ATF Investigation

Sold Guns at Gun Shows Without a License – ATF Investigation

There is no gun show loophole. The director of ATF said this himself at a congressional hearing. Representative Thomas Massie asked about the gun show loophole and ATF Director Dettelbach responded “and there never was.” So why are people going to federal prison for selling guns at gun shows without a license? Because the loophole was never about gun shows. It was always about private sales. Gun shows are just where private sellers go to FIND buyers – the marketplace that makes unlicensed dealing efficient. And if you’ve been selling guns at gun shows thinking the event itself protects you, you’ve misunderstood the law in a way that could cost you five years in federal prison.

Welcome to Spodek Law Group. We created this page because the internet is full of people debating whether the gun show loophole is real or fake – and completely missing the point. The loophole exists in private sales, not in the venue. Gun shows aren’t regulated by ATF. Only the people inside them are. Over 4,000 gun shows happen every year across the United States and every single one is legal. What happens inside them might not be. That distinction destroys people who think showing up at an organized event somehow provides legal cover. It doesn’t.

Here’s what federal law actually says. A person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the predominant objective of earning profit needs a Federal Firearms License. There is no specific number of guns that triggers the requirement. There is no frequency threshold. There is no dollar amount. The question isn’t “can I sell guns at a gun show?” – of course you can. The question is “am I engaged in the business of dealing firearms?” And if you’re at a gun show repeatedly with a table full of guns for sale, ATF already knows the answer.

The “Gun Show Loophole” That Doesn’t Exist

The term itself is political messaging, not legal description. What actually exists is a private sale exemption that applies everywhere – at gun shows, in parking lots, through online platforms, in your living room. Federal law requires licensed dealers to conduct background checks on every sale. Federal law does not require private individuals to conduct background checks when selling firearms from their personal collection. This exemption has nothing to do with gun shows specifically.

Heres the irony that confuses everyone. ATF cant regulate gun shows. They can only regulate the people inside them. The event is legal. The venue is legal. Your activity at that event might constitute a federal felony. Between 50 and 75 percent of gun show vendors are actually licensed dealers who follow all the rules – background checks, Form 4473, record keeping. The minority of vendors – unlicensed private sellers – create the trafficking channels that ATF investigates.

Gun shows represent only 3% of trafficking investigations that ATF conducts. Sounds small. But heres what that statistic hides. Gun show cases have the highest mean number of trafficked firearms per investigation. Small percentage of cases, massive volume per bust. When ATF investigates gun show trafficking, they find patterns involving dozens or hundreds of firearms, not just a few. The average gun show bust involves more guns then any other trafficking channel. Thats why ATF keeps watching gun shows even though there only 3% of cases – the yield per investigation is massive.

The 2024 rule from the Department of Justice made this even more explicit. If you sell guns predominantly to earn a profit, you need a license. It dosent matter if its a gun show, an online listing, or your front porch. The venue is irrelevant. Your intent when you bought the guns – and your pattern of selling – determines whether your a lawful private seller or an unlicensed dealer committing federal crimes.

What Makes You an Unlicensed Dealer

You can sell 100 guns legally at a gun show. Or you can sell ONE gun illegally at the same show. The number dosent determine legality. Your intent at the time of purchase determines everything.

If you bought a gun for your personal collection, used it, kept it for years, and later decided to sell it at a gun show – thats a private sale from your collection. Legal. If you bought a gun intending to flip it for profit at a gun show – thats engaging in the business of dealing firearms. Illegal without a license. Same gun. Same show. Same booth. Different crime based on a thought you had months or years ago when you made the purchase.

Todd Spodek explains this distinction to clients who cant understand why there facing federal charges. “I only sold a few guns” isnt a defense. “I didnt make much money” isnt a defense. The government dosent need to prove you actualy made profit. They only need to prove your predominant intent was to profit. You can lose money on every gun you sell and still be guilty of unlicensed dealing if your motive was to make money.

Heres what tips you from private seller to unlicensed dealer in ATF’s eyes:

• Quick turnovers – bought a gun in January, sold it in February
• Multiple guns of the same model – why does a “collector” need five identical Glocks?
• Guns still in original packaging – never fired, never used, just flipped
• Advertising before you buy – “ISO buyers for guns I dont own yet”
• Repetitive presence at gun shows – same booth, different weekends, always selling

Each of these facts is circumstantial evidence. Stack enough together and your “hobby” becomes a federal crime.

The uncomfortable truth is that ATF dosent investigate most unlicensed gun show sellers. In 2015, they prosecuted only 57 cases nationally for illegal engagement in the gun business. Not because it dosent happen constantly. Because the “hobbyist” defense made prosecution difficult – how do you prove intent without a clear numerical threshold? But the 2022 Bipartisan Safer Communities Act and the 2024 ATF rule changed everything. The “hobbyist” defense is nearly impossible now. If your selling predominantly for profit, your a dealer. Period.

How ATF Builds Gun Show Cases

Every gun has a serial number. Every sale creates a chain. And ATF has a system called eTrace that connects crime guns back through there chain of ownership to every person who ever possessed them. Heres how it works in practice.

A gun shows up at a crime scene in Chicago. Police recover it and submit a trace request. ATF traces it back through the manufacturer, the distributor, the first retail sale. Then they look at subsequent transfers. Your name appears as a previous owner. That information goes into a database. Six months later, another gun from a Detroit homicide traces back to you. Now theres a pattern. A year later, a gun recovered in Mexico has your name in its history. ATF now has three data points. An investigation opens.

The investigation runs for months before anyone contacts you. ATF pulls your social media. They subpoena gun show records. They look at your online listings – GunBroker, Armslist, Facebook Marketplace. They interview people who bought from you. By the time an ATF agent shows up at your door, they already know how many guns youve sold, who you sold them to, and what pattern emerges. There not asking questions to learn. There asking questions to see if youll lie. And lying to federal agents is a seperate crime that makes everything worse.

Heres the system revelation that catches people. Bennett and Sims ran tables at Dallas-area gun shows promoting “no paperwork” sales. That marketing message became evidence of intent. “No paperwork” means no background check. No background check means no record of who you sold to. Sounds like privacy. Actually creates liability. When ATF investigates, you have NOTHING proving the buyer wasnt a prohibited person. Your “privacy” marketing becomes proof you knew what you were doing.

Firearms tracing is used in 60% of ATF trafficking investigations. Even more revealing – crime gun trace analysis STARTS 30% of investigations. That means ATF often begins investigating you before theres any complaint, before anyone reports you, triggered entirely by guns you sold showing up in places they shouldnt be. Your gun show table from 2019 connects to a homicide investigation in 2024. The chain never breaks.

The 2022 and 2024 Law Changes That Changed Everything

The Bipartisan Safer Communities Act passed in June 2022. One word changed in the legal standard. The old standard was “principal objective of livelihood and profit.” That meant you basicly had to be running a gun store as your career. The new standard is “predominantly earn a profit.” Livelihood is gone.

Heres what that means for gun show sellers. Under the old standard, if gun sales were side income – not your primary job – the “hobbyist” defense worked. Under the new standard, if profit is your predominant motivation for selling, even as a hobby, even as weekend income, even as extra cash, you need a license. The threshold dropped dramatically.

Then in April 2024, the Department of Justice published the final rule implementing the new standard. Attorney General Merrick Garland stated: “Under this regulation, it will not matter if guns are sold on the internet, at a gun show, or at a brick-and-mortar store: if you sell guns predominantly to earn a profit, you must be licensed.”

The DOJ estimates over 20,000 people are currently operating as unlicensed dealers through gun shows, online platforms, and other channels. Most of them have no idea there violating federal law. They think there selling from there personal collection. There actualy running unlicensed firearms businesses.

And ATF dosent just apply this standard going forward. Your past pattern of gun show sales – the guns you sold in 2020, 2021, 2022 – now gets evaluated under the new standard. What was arguably legal three years ago might now be used as evidence that you were “engaged in the business” all along. The law changed. Your criminal exposure expanded retroactivly.

Real Gun Show Dealers Who Got Convicted

These arent hypothetical scenarios. These are real people who thought they understood gun show rules and discovered they were wrong in federal court.

David “Big Dave” Lewisbey was a former high school football player from Chicago suburbs who traveled to Indiana gun shows and bought duffel bags full of guns. He brought them back to Chicago and sold them on the street. From just one weekend gun show trip in 2010, prosecutors alleged he netted over $38,000. He sold to gang-connected buyers – who turned out to be ATF informants. Lewisbey was convicted of selling guns without a license, trafficking firearms across state lines, and selling to felons. Hes currently serving a 200-month sentence. Thats over 16 years in federal prison.

David Joseph Mull of Indiana sold over 1,300 firearms without a license. Many were bound for Mexico. In 2016, ATF served him with a cease-and-desist letter telling him his conduct was unlawful. He ignored it. He evaded detection by primarily purchasing from OTHER private sellers at gun shows across the country – avoiding FFL records. Didnt matter. ATF traced his guns to crime scenes across multiple countries. Mull got 4 years in federal prison.

Bennett and Sims operated at Dallas-area gun shows. Both promoted that sales at there booths involved “no paperwork.” Bennett admitted he specialized in .380 caliber pistols – “preferred firearms for trafficking to Mexico.” There guns went to prohibited persons, including people convicted of drug dealing and child cruelty. Other guns were recovered at crime scenes from California to Florida to Mexico. Bennett got 25 months. Sims got 21 months. Federal prison for running gun show tables without paperwork.

Morris of Texas was convicted for selling just 52 firearms without a license. Not 1,300. Not hundreds. Fifty-two guns. He got federal charges anyway. This case proves you dont need massive volume to face prosecution. Pattern of sales over time, even relatively modest numbers, creates unlicensed dealing exposure.

Spodek Law Group has studied these cases becuase understanding how ATF builds them helps us defend clients facing similar charges. The pattern is consistent. Evidence of repetitive sales. Evidence of profit motive. Crime guns traced back to the seller. The defense strategy depends on attacking these elements – proving genuine collection sales, challenging pattern evidence, negotiating before charges are filed.

What Happens When One of Your Guns Shows Up at a Crime Scene

This is were gun show sellers who thought they were operating legally discover how federal investigations actualy work. The consequence cascade is relentless.

The cascade works like this. You sell guns at a gun show. One of those guns gets recovered at a crime scene – homicide, robbery, gang activity. Law enforcement submits a trace request. ATF traces it back through the chain. Your name appears. That trace goes into eTrace. Now your in a federal database connected to a crime gun.

If it happens once, maybe nothing. Guns change hands. Previous owners arent always suspects. But if it happens twice – two different crime guns, two different cities, same previous owner – ATF sees a pattern. If it happens three times, an investigation opens.

ATF starts pulling everything. Gun show records from shows you attended. Online platform records – Armslist, GunBroker, Facebook groups. Social media posts showing guns for sale. Text messages arranging transactions. Bank records showing deposits consistent with gun sales. Interviews with people who bought from you.

By the time you know your under investigation, ATF has been building the case for months. There goal isnt to understand what happened. There goal is to build a prosecutable case. Everything you say during there interview becomes evidence. And heres the kicker – lying to federal agents about your gun sales is a seperate felony under 18 USC 1001. You can turn an unlicensed dealing investigation into a false statements prosecution by trying to minimize what you did.

The cease-and-desist letter is the warning shot. If ATF sends you one, take it seriously. David Mull ignored his and got 4 years federal prison. The letter becomes evidence of willful violation. You cant claim you didnt know your conduct was unlawful when the government literally told you it was.

The Federal Penalties for Unlicensed Gun Show Sales

Willfully engaging in the business of dealing firearms without a license carries up to 5 years in federal prison per count. Thats the baseline. If your guns went to prohibited persons, if large volumes were involved, if firearms were used in crimes – enhanced circumstances can push that to 10-15 years.

David Lewisbey got 200 months. Thats 16 years and 8 months. Why so high? He trafficked guns across state lines. He sold to felons. He sold to gang members. His guns were used in crimes. Each of those factors enhanced his sentence beyond the baseline unlicensed dealing charge.

Mull got 4 years for 1,300 firearms. Bennett and Sims got 21-25 months. Morris faced federal charges for 52 guns. The sentencing varies based on volume, enhancement factors, and cooperation – but federal prison time is the consistent outcome.

Heres what makes federal gun charges devastating. Federal conviction rate exceeds 90%. ATF dosent bring cases they think there going to lose. If there investigating you for unlicensed gun show dealing, they already have substantial evidence. The traces. The transaction records. The pattern analysis. The testimony from buyers. By the time you learn your under scrutiny, the case is largely built.

And unlike state prison, federal prison means federal prison. No parole in the federal system. You serve 85% of your sentence minimum. A 5-year federal sentence means over 4 years actualy incarcerated. A 10-year sentence means 8.5 years. Lewisbey’s 200 months means hes serving at least 170 months – over 14 years – before even being considered for release.

Civil asset forfeiture takes your guns and your proceeds. Every firearm ATF can connect to your unlicensed business gets seized. Every dollar they can trace to gun sales gets forfeited. A conviction means lifetime prohibition from possessing firearms. Your right to own guns – the thing you were trying to make money from – gets taken away permanantly. You cant own a gun, cant buy a gun, cant live in a house with guns. For the rest of your life.

Contact a Federal Firearms Defense Attorney

Maybe ATF contacted you about guns you sold at gun shows. Maybe youve been selling at shows for years and your starting to realize the new law makes your activity illegal. Maybe a gun you sold just showed up at a crime scene and your waiting for the knock on your door. Whatever brought you here, understand this: if youve been selling firearms at gun shows with any regularity and any profit motive, you might already be operating as an unlicensed dealer under federal law.

Call Spodek Law Group at 212-300-5196 before you talk to anyone else. Federal unlicensed dealing charges carry up to 5 years per count. Enhanced penalties reach 10-15 years. Fines hit $250,000. And everything you say to ATF agents – even trying to explain yourself – becomes evidence against you.

Todd Spodek has defended clients facing federal firearms charges stemming from gun show activities. We understand how these investigations develop – the tracing, the subpoenas, the pattern analysis, the interview tactics. We know how to challenge the circumstantial evidence ATF relies on to prove “engaged in the business.” We know how to present legitimate personal collection defenses when the facts support them. We know how to negotiate with federal prosecutors before charges are filed – when theres still room to shape the outcome. And we know how to defend these cases at trial when negotiation isnt an option.

The gun show didnt protect you. The “hobbyist” defense probly wont either. But theres still time to build a defense before ATF builds a case. Call us at 212-300-5196. The consultation is free. The mistake of talking to federal agents without counsel could determine wheather you spend the next several years in federal prison.

Call Spodek Law Group now. 212-300-5196.